SPORTSDAY

Posted by NYCowboyFan @ 3:14 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Oh jeez...I always get nervous when I hear about some athlete putting his two cents in about Mike Vick, for the most part you only hear the quotes from the athletes that say something stupid...What T.O. said didnt sound too bad the way i read it, but who knows how the idiots at ESPN will spin those words, either way you can be sure it will be in the coming attractions for tonights SportsCenter....

Posted by Mitchell @ 3:19 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

If anyone should know about undue attention it is T.O. If you ever watch Animal Planet you know he is right. I have seen people on there get a 50 dollar ticket for letting their dog starve to death on the chain.

Posted by Kyle @ 3:23 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Yeah, people make mistakes, but give me a break. It takes a special kind of monster to think it's ok to torture and kill dogs for fun.

Posted by S L @ 3:26 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

hands over ears, closing eyes, I am in a vick-free zone.

la la la la la la

Posted by Larry @ 3:31 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Have always liked T.O., so unlike many blog posters, I am not just jumping on T.O. because I don't like the guy, BUT,

Don't try to label this a "mistake". Getting hauled in on a DUI is a mistake. This is a lifetime of abuse to animals and gambling.

And PLEASE, don't try to tell me Vick is a GOOD GUY T.O. === Holy Crap. If this is our definition of a good person these days, this country is in a lot of trouble. This guy is pond scum.

Posted by John Kochtosten @ 3:42 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Why does the excuse "he's getting all this attention because he is a superb athlete" work only when things go bad?

The guy received a $130 million contract because "he's an superb athlete". Why is it so easy for athletes to think that they deserve big contracts because they are "superb" but they don't expect the media attention and the negative spotlight when they do something wrong?

I sure hope that TO and some of his fellow "superb athletes" read this blog. I want them to know that they don't HAVE to play footbal, instead they can do what all of us do - work for the man everyday - without a multi-million dollar contract. You guys are entertainers - nothing more. You happen to be good at something on which the market places a high value.

Posted by Andre @ 3:44 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

I do agree with you Larry. They guy is pond scum. But, we should remember the word compassion. I think T.O. was correct there. Even the worse of the worse non compassionate people deserve compassion from human others. It's a tough one, and sounds easy to say. I honestly despise Vick for what he did, but well, he is human and it's amazing what humans are capable of.

Posted by drhorton @ 3:47 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

OK, I've heard enough about Vick. I cannot stand the thought of what he did to those poor animals. It is sick. BUT...

I didn't grow up in the environment that he did. In some places, this is acceptable behavior. In Korea, for example, dogs are a delicacy. No one in India would dare eat a hamburger either.

Cultures are different everywhere you go, and I believe culture is a part of this. Just like some people hate on others because of race or religion, others are taught bad behaviors like this at a young age. I don't think Vick woke up one day two years ago and decided this was OK. I think it started many years before that.

Having said all that, I still cannot condone it, and I am glad he will pay his price. I hope he serves as the poster boy for all people who are into this "sport". But after he pays his price, then he should be allowed to continue his life, just like anyone else who has gone astray of the law.

Now, can we get back to football, for Pete's sake?

Posted by quincyyyyy @ 3:52 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

By T.O.'s own logic to be human means you have compassion. Which means if you don't have compassion you are not human. And as far as I can tell Vick showed no compassion for those dogs. So one could logically conclude Vick is not a human being.

Posted by Larry @ 4:16 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Dont talk to me about compassion for this piece of crap!

98% of peaple who go wrong probably deserve compassion and perhaps even forgiveness.

2% commit acts that are so hanus, so "unhuman", and so unbelievably against all that is good and decent, that they deserve nothing, now, or ever.
Michael Vick falls in this catagory.

Posted by ernest t bass @ 5:55 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

"... there are a lot of other people that have done things not to that extreme that have gotten far less attention," Owens said.

Yes, yes there are. The dude is a genius.

Posted by ernest t bass @ 6:08 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Somebody keeps talking out of their hanus.

Posted by HumanBeing @ 6:10 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

The disgusting thing about dogfighting isn't that animals battle and die -- after all, animals fight to the death in nature, tearing each other's flesh with heartless violence. The disgusting thing about dogfighting is that supposedly intelligent members of Homo sapiens add sadism to the natural equation by starving dogs to make them extra aggressive, filing their incisors to make the fights bloodier, and engaging in other acts unbecoming any man or woman of ethics. What Michael Vick confessed to Monday ought to disgust you, regardless of whether you are a dog lover. Include me. The Official Dog of TMQ -- a Chesapeake retriever, noble state dog of Maryland -- slumbers happily near my feet as I write this.

But the punishment expected to be imposed on Vick -- one to two years in federal prison, and perhaps never playing in the NFL again -- seems out of proportion to his actions and his status as a first-time offender. The situation is confusing because the federal crimes to which Vick pleaded guilty turn as much on gambling and racketeering as dogfighting; gambling and racketeering concern federal prosecutors because of their relationship to organized crime. Racketeering can lead to jail terms even for nonviolent first-time offenders not involved with drug sales, such as Vick. The NFL, for its part, has very strong reasons to detest gambling, and elaborately warns players they will be harshly penalized for associating with gamblers. Yet I can't help feeling there is overkill in the social, media and legal reactions to Vick, and that the overkill originates in hypocrisy about animals.

Thousands of animals are mistreated or killed in the United States every day without the killers so much as being criticized, let alone imprisoned. Ranchers and farmers kill stock animals or horses that are sick or injured. Some ranchers kill stock animals as gently as possible, others callously; in either case, prosecution is nearly unheard of. As Derek Jackson pointed out last week in the Boston Globe, greyhound tracks routinely race dogs to exhaustion and injury, then kill the losers, or simply eliminate less-strong pups: "184,604 greyhound puppies judged to be inferior for racing" were killed, legally, in the past 20 years.

Hunters shoot animals for sport. They do so lawfully, while the manner in which Vick harmed his dogs was unlawful. But from the perspective of the animal, there seems little difference between a hunter with a state game license zipped in his vest pocket shooting a deer as part of something the hunter views as really fun sport, and Vick shooting a dog as part of something Vick views as really fun sport. In both cases, animals suffer for human entertainment. The animal-ethics distinction between Vick's actions and lawful game hunting are murky at best. A first-time offender should go to prison over a murky distinction?

Much more troubling is that the overwhelming majority of Americans who eat meat and poultry -- I'm enthusiastically among them -- are complicit in the systematic cruel treatment of huge numbers of animals. Snickering about this, or saying you're tired of hearing about it, doesn't make it go away. Most animals used for meat experience miserable lives under cruel conditions, including confinement for extended periods in pits of excrement. (Michael Pollan, who enthusiastically consumes meat and fowl, describes the mistreatment in his important new book The Omnivore's Dilemma.) Meat animals don't magically stop living when it's time to become a product; they suffer as they die. One of Vick's dogs was shot, another electrocuted. Gunshots and electrocution are federally approved methods of livestock slaughter, sanctioned by the Department of Agriculture for the killing of cows and pigs. Regulations under the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958 give federal sanction to shooting cows or pigs, or running electrical current through their bodies. Shooting and electrocution are viewed by federal law as humane ways to kill animals that will be consumed. Federal rules also allow slaughterhouses to hit cows in the head with a fast-moving piston that stuns them into semiconsciousness before they are sliced up. Being hit in the head with a powerful piston -- does that sound a bit painful, a bit cruel? It's done to tens of thousands of steers per year, lawfully.

Don't say "eew, gross" about how meat animals are butchered, then return to denouncing Vick. If you're eating a cheeseburger or BLT or steak or pot roast today, there's a good chance you are dining on an animal that was shot or electrocuted. You are complicit. You freely bought the meat, you did not demand Congress strengthen the Humane Slaughter Act. Livestock can be calmed and drugged before being slain. A few slaughterhouses do this, but most don't because it raises costs, and you, the consumer, demand the lowest possible price for your meal. Now about your turkey sub or coq au vin. Federal slaughter regulations apply mainly to large animals, leaving considerable freedom in the killing of fowl. Many poultry slaughterhouses kill chickens by slashing their throats rather than snapping their necks. Snapping the neck kills the bird quickly, ending suffering, but then the heart dies quickly, too. Slashing the throat causes the bird to live in agony for several minutes, heart still beating and pumping blood out of the slash -- and consumers prefer bloodless chicken meat.

Further, the Humane Slaughter Act exempts kosher and halal slaughter. In both traditions, the cow or lamb must be conscious when killed by having its carotid artery, or esophagus and trachea, slashed. The animal bleeds to death, convulsing in agony, as its heart pumps blood, which is viewed as unclean, out of the slashed openings. The delicious pastrami we consumed at a kosher deli, or the wonderfully good beef we could buy at a halal butcher, comes from an animal that suffered as it died.

Yes, Vick broke the law; yes, he arrogantly lied and refused to apologize when first caught; and yes, his actions before and after the dog killings indicate he is one stupid, stupid man. But Vick's lawbreaking was relatively minor compared to animal mistreatment that happens continuously, within the law, at nearly all levels of the meat production industry, and with which all but vegetarians are complicit. There is some kind of mass neurosis at work in the rush to denounce Vick, wag fingers and say he deserved even worse. Society wants to scapegoat Vick to avoid contemplating its own routine, systematic killing of animals. We couldn't all become vegetarians tomorrow: that is not practical. But American society is not even attempting to make the handling of meat animals less brutal, let alone working to transition away from a food-production order in which huge numbers of animals are systematically mistreated, then killed in ways that inflict terror and pain. We won't lift a finger to change the way animals die for us. But we will demand Michael Vick serve prison time to atone for our sins.

Legal note: Vick might be compelled to repay the Falcons a huge amount of bonus money, and will lose $25 million or more in endorsement income. I have no sympathy for his loss of endorsement income: Vick was hired to bring Nike and other companies he endorsed good publicity, and instead brought them bad. But think about the income loss in the calculation of overpunishment of Vick. One or two years in federal prison, and perhaps state prison time if state charges are filed as well; plus $25 million in lost endorsement income and, oh, $50 million in lost or returned NFL income. That's overkill! Often the indirect financial consequences of legal proceedings are worse than the official ones, in the same way that a speeding ticket might cost you $75 but add $1,000 to your annual insurance bill.

In effect, the federal indictment of Vick is resulting in him being fined around $75 million, which is far too much retribution. The legal hang-up is that since 1984, federal courts have been forbidden to consider monetary loss in private life as counting toward punishment. But a year of banishment from the NFL, a guilty plea with suspended sentence and probation (meaning the sentence is imposed if probation is violated), seems plenty of punishment for a first offense by someone who has not harmed another human being. Prison time and a $75 million fine? What Vick did was indecent, but now excessive punishment is being imposed, and two wrongs do not equal one right. Justice, after all, must be tempered with mercy. That's what you would think if you stood in the dock accused.

Hypocrisy note: Look who's advertising on a Web page extolling the cruel crossbow killing of animals for sport -- the NFL. Oh, that Michael Vick, he's evil, he's bad. But buy NFL Shop items to wear when you shoot deer with arrows so they slowly bleed to death!

Posted by me @ 6:43 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

It takes a special kind of monster to think it's ok to shoot and skin deer for fun.

Posted by BigTex84 @ 7:16 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Wow!!! I've have never been so intrigued by this blog!! HumanBeing you are 100% correct and I applaud you!! I don't like what Vick did, but there is worse! I was reading the other day about his alma mater Virginia Tech, I suddenly put things into perspective!!

I agree and think that enough is enough!! Let us (as a country) now focus on the things that effect us all...instead of something one man decided to do!

Posted by John Kochtosten @ 7:53 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Hey, HumanBeing - bottom line is, you commit a crime, you get punished. If you think that any of those other things should be against the law, write your congressman. Oh, and Michael Vick deserves to lose $75 million, based upon stupidity alone. He is now running neck and neck in the stupidity contest with Mike Tyson.

BTW - If you don't like hunting, don't hunt.

Posted by chris graham @ 7:58 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

maybe some of you should stop killing fish ,chickens and cows.dogs aint nothing but free loaders they need to bow wow a job.or fight and make me some money.

Posted by Chris/Denton @ 8:29 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

Quote: "Dont talk to me about compassion for this piece of crap!
98% of peaple who go wrong probably deserve compassion and perhaps even forgiveness.

2% commit acts that are so hanus, so "unhuman", and so unbelievably against all that is good and decent, that they deserve nothing, now, or ever.
Michael Vick falls in this catagory."
Posted by: Larry

I don't like what he did either Larry but I hope if you ever make a mistake that there's LOTS of people just like you on your jury...

Posted by dallas fan @ 9:14 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

It is unfortunate that this incident had taken place, I being a former dog owner, empathize with Michael, and I agree with T.O., everyone makes mistakes, however, I believe this ordeal is recieving too much attention, Mike will be punished by going to prison, is it right for us as humans to torture him spiritually. I hear all this negative publicity, and I am not making light of the situation, enough is enough. Let him have his day in court, get sentenced, pay his debt to society and allow all to move on and heal.
We should be as attentive to and be just as compassonate about the war, about the victims in Louisiana. The signing bonus is just that and should not be given back.

Posted by John Kochtosten @ 11:13 PM Wed, Aug 29, 2007

WTF is wrong with you people. The guy broke the law , confessed to breaking said law and is thus getting punished for it. He will get some sentence that is deemed appropriate for breaking the law. JUST LIKE YOU OR ME IF WE BROKE SAID LAW. Him going to prison is the only punishment he is receiving. The losing his right to play football for some period of time, his losing his contract and his losing his endorsements ARE NOT PUNISHMENT. He broke the contracts in each situation and thus, the contracts are void.

If he were on Wall Street, he'd never work there again due to his felony conviction. Ditto for a number of other professions.

Posted by Richard Lauer @ 6:09 AM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Good post by John: Also remember that his court papers talked about gambling. The guy cost his employers a ton of money. After his sentence is finished he should and probably will be fired. I can't say that he ever fulfilled his promise as a decent NFL quaterback anyway. This will help Atlanta as a football team in the end. I do have compassion for him though,he will have to find another path in life.

Posted by Izzy @ 8:30 AM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

I'm beginning to get outraged at all the outrage.

When I first heard about this I thought to myself "wow, that's messed up". I figured he'd get fined. Then when in came out how invovled he was and people said jail, I thought to myself, "wow, he should have known better".

But when people go nuts over this stuff it kind of irks me. The RELATIVE response to Vick has been in my mind ridiculous. We look at genocide and think "wow, that's messed up" and then move on. We look at starvation and natural disasters and think "wow, that's messed up" and then move on.

But heaven forbid a couple dogs die, then all our outrage pours forth like the wrath of God from on high.

My wish is that the Vick incident becomes the benchmark for the level of outrage Americans feel. Afterall, if a couple dogs get maimed and killed and this is the response, what whould be the appropriate response to HUMANS being subjected to maiming and death around the world?

Posted by Habib @ 10:32 AM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

This is my take on Vick.No 1 he should never be allowed back in the NFL and I think R. Goddel will not let him come back and Vick himself should say he does not wish to come back.The only way Vick can redeem himself is by useing his fame and money to start an organization to rescue and protect animals.He owes it to those dogs he killed to do something with great impact, something to win people over with.No 2 This has nothing to do with race I am sure white and spanish and all other races are abusing animals as well but we live in civilized soceity and these acts are not only criminal but they are deplorable and depressing.Vick's family let him down, they should have stepped in and given him help.If he was my brother I would have taken him aside and given him profaional help.Again this is not about race and if Vick was white or whatever other race I would feel the same.I hate every time a famious person gets in trouble they use their tough upbringing as an exuse and that is insult to all the people who have overcome advercity to bo vital member of our soceity.

Posted by Habib @ 11:02 AM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Izzy I don't think people have closed their eyes on human suffering in fact I think if I see suffering in any shape or form it makes me sick.Your comment that we should let dogs getting slaughterd go unnoticed because humans are soffering more is wrong.This is about what is right or wrong and we live in soceity that values life wether it is animal or human.

Posted by John Kochtosten @ 11:52 AM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Separate the punishment from the public opinion.

The punishment from him breaking the law will probably be perfectly in alignment with the crime. Thankfully is won't, and shouldn't, be dictated by his status as an athlete.

As far as the outrage being demonstrated by people, I guess all I can say is that I am not surprised. The court of public opinion is never perfectly rationale nor proportionate. But if anyone has a problem with that, then take it up with the population in general. Good luck changing public opinion.

Posted by Izzy @ 12:37 PM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Habib--you missed my point. I have no problem with the level of outrage expressed towards Vick. My problem is that THIS issue fired up people, but bigger problems do not.

By no means did I mean to say we should lay off Vick because we don't care about bigger issues. I was trying to say if we care this much about dogs we should be doing a heck of alot more to help humans around the world.

Posted by Habib @ 1:37 PM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Izzy I am sorry I misunderstood you and agree people should get more fired up and talk about suffering of humans in Africa,middle east and U.S. and everywhere.We need more people like Dr. Martin Luther King,Brad pitt,Angelina Joli,Sean Penn and so many others.I wonder what John Lennon or Dr. King would say and do if they were here.

Posted by Bill the Cowboys Fan @ 3:19 PM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

John K,
I must say that I have to take back some of the bad things I have thought about you-but not all of them.
But your thoughts on the Mike Vick story are some of the most rational and intelligent that I have seen. It is too bad that more people cannot see this situation with the same reasoning.

Posted by Izzy @ 4:13 PM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Habib, while I appreciate the sentiment, for goodness sake please DO NOT compare a bunch of rich Hollywood types to Martin Luther King. Creating PR and creating change are two radically different things. Those actors' hearts may be in the right place, but honestly, they'll never understand what it means to sacrifice for a belief.

Posted by John Kochtosten @ 4:14 PM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Bill,

Don't just think bad things about me, please say them. It's much more fun that way. And thanks for the nice sentiments.

Posted by BigTex84 @ 4:27 PM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

On a side note...I am SO IMPRESSED with the intelligence with which T.O. has answered this question. He could have sounded off like he has in the past. Instead, he showed heart and emotion!!

I read his response again and thought...he sounds so intelligent, genuine, and rational!! I hope this side of T.O. stays around! I can honestly say that no matter what he has done in the league, he is a better role model than 1/2 of the league!!!

Posted by Habib @ 5:29 PM Thu, Aug 30, 2007

Izzy those Hollywood types are not even close to Dr. King but Brad is doing great job in New Orleans and Angilina is doing great things in Africa and was in Iraq and Syria and Sean if you remove his personal polotics is almost like john Wayne.Izzy just listen to John Lennon's Imagine and give peace a chance song, plus I would rather these guys give of their time rather than seeing them being arrested for DUI.