SPORTSDAY

Posted by Jazzmaster @ 4:32 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

Tim, that one REALLLLLLLLLY hurts. Of course, knowledgable Cowboy fans were against the pick of Carpenter in the first place.

To draft a guy just because his father played for you!

Oh well, that's Miami's problem now......HAHAHA!!!!

Posted by Brandon B @ 5:00 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

Tim, I understand your point, but CB wasn't a need for the Cowboys at that point either while LB was. It is kind of a stretch to pull out the good players who could have been drafted. Should every team be criticized for passing on Brady multiple times?

The player that should have been pointed out was DeMeco Ryans. If the Cowboys needed a LB, they should have drafted Ryans instead of Carpenter. Of course, as Jazzmaster stated, Ryans dad didn't play for Parcells. And his best NFL talent isn't toting cups of water for BP either.

Posted by TEK2000 @ 5:15 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

There was a lot more to that draft than has been discussed. No doubt Cromartie would have been a great pick but, like has been mentioned, CB wasn't much of a need at the time.

Moving Greg Ellis to OLB was a real test and could have been a real bust as much as it has been a boom. We needed a solid OLB opposite Ware and Carpenter, at the time, appeared to be the most complete OLB in the draft. Other guys were tweeners that were real risky while Carpenter played OLB in college and also had pass rushing experience while at Ohio State.

The original intention was to have Carp at OLB.. but Parcells thought that Carp was better suited to ILB once they were in training camp. Then, switcthing him between positions probably slowed his progress into an NFL player.

He fit at the time.. but with Greg Ellis having such success at OLB.. it left Bobby as a backup on a team with a lot of talent at all the LBer positions. He might be a solid player on another team.. but the Cowboys are very strong at the LBer position.

Posted by davej @ 5:46 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

I would love to have Cromartie at CB, but let's look at the facts of what happened.

First of all, Cromartie was coming out as a junior and he had injured his knee his last year at FSU and missed at least half the season. He was all raw talent and had produced very little on the field. Can you think of the screams if he had been drafted #1? Also, Carp was drafted to fill a need at OLB and Ryans was always an ILB, so there is no way they would have drafted him.

Second, the team messed up the LB situation big time. They drafted Burnett, Ware, Carpenter, and now Spencer last year. Three #1s and a #2 for LB in 3 straight years. That doesn't even take into account signing Akin Ayodele, converting Greg Ellis to LB, or Bradie James who was a 4th(?) round pick two years before Ware. And remember Rocky Boiman who they signed as a Free Agent who didn't even make it out of training camp? And all of those players are supposed to fill 4 LB positions. Is someone going to get left out or what?

Burnett and Carpenter were not given any time to develop. Parcells really screwed up by moving Carp around and not letting him settle into a position. He wrote off Burnett because of his knee injury his rookie year.

To use Bill's analogy, he lost patience while he was cooking the meal and he rushed it and it didn't cook properly.

Posted by BigTexKahuna @ 5:47 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

TEK2000 makes a good point. Greg's transition to LB, which I seem to recall was the BIG mystery at the time, so drafting another LB to fill up TheTunaCasserole's vaunted 3-4 was the choice du jour back then. Greg Ellis cowboys-up, shows the NFL world that there ain't nuthin' to playing this 3-4 LB thang, and son of Bill's friend is left doing bench warming duty... too bad for Bobby.

So... IMO, bringing up this Cromartie comparison is simply pouring salt into an open wound there, T-Mac... Bobby C is just a victim of circumstance. He should be traded... to help him have a worthwhile career, and to hopefully fill a more pressing need for the team.

Posted by don @ 5:53 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

All this angst over the drafting of bobby carpenter?

he was brought up in a presser this week and he'll get more chances to play. We'll see, be patient. BTW, can you have enough young LBs in the 3-4 or would you rather be starting 4 30-somethings?

Cromartie is only the 3rd CB on this team with a healthy newman and henry. Granted, he is playing well, and he would increase our depth at CB, but dallas has 3 picks in the first 64 this year. I think we'll get a starting quality corner with one of those.

Posted by Fighter15 @ 5:54 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

It's getting real old from you guys.

The Great Bradie James was a bust until his breakout. Same for Burnett last year (and ad nauseum this trainging camp).

Don't y'all get tired of being negative all the time. He will produce. Quit the quipping and let the Landry rule dictate all comments on draft picks.

As BP said, it's about talent acquisition. Round makes no difference. Tom Brady went in the 6th. Jerry Rice in the 4th. T.O. in the 3rd. So everyone except you with 20/20 hindsight is an idiot, huh?

Posted by Not So Crazy Ray @ 6:06 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

The Carpenter pick was just peculiar. As I've said in other posts, I do think he'll end up being a successful NFL LB. But he was chosen as insurance in case Ellis couldn't make the switch to LB, and he just isn't the same type of player as Ellis/Ware/Spencer. As we saw in his great performance in the playoff game last year, it's not that he can't play. It's just a question of where he fits.

DaveJ, you are completely correct. Good God, we threw the kitchen sink at the LB position and we're really not getting enough return on that investment.

And, let me add this for all of you who want to knock Parcells for taking a guy "because he knew his daddy." Marion Barber III was another guy whose daddy Parcells knew and that sure has gone well, huh?

Posted by RP @ 6:11 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

Bobby Carpenter will be fine, just give him some time.

Posted by kameleon_o @ 6:14 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

Fighter, I agree with most of what you're saying but it was a little different with James. People expect 1st round draft picks to produce right away. They don't necessarily expect that from 4th round guys. All that being said, I was on board with drafting Carp and I understand why Jerry and Bill wanted him. OLB was a position of great need and he fit the BP mold of an OLB in his version of the 3-4 D. Big enough to match up in the box with O-linemen and fast enough to cover TE's and RB's out of the flat. Just hasn't worked out the way it was planned.

Also, look who is playing ahead of him right now. We've got a bunch of 1st round picks, a 2nd round pick, a guy in James and Ayodele that were signed for big FA deals. I guess it would hurt more if the guy was getting beat out by some scrub picked in the 7th round or something.

Posted by kameleon_o @ 6:21 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

That is another thing I wanted to point out. I'm not the biggest fan of Parcells in the world. That's for sure, but to think Parcells picked him 'cause he knew his dad is crazy. Carpenter was an excellent LB in college and has all the potential in the world to be a good LB in the NFL.

I remember reading a draft scouting report on Carp that year. The scout said that after watching Carp play he felt that he had all the talent and physical ability in the world, as much as A.J. Hawk, but that it just seemed like his fire would go out sometimes, whereas Hawks burned all the time.

Posted by RichardScribe @ 7:21 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

Carpenter over Cromartie was another botched draft pick by Parcells (remember passing up Steven Jackson for Julius Jones anyone?). Bill may have turned around the franchise, but look how much better it would be if Dallas had Cromartie and Jackson on the roster.

Posted by sdrick @ 8:46 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

Parcells was very good with second day picks and free agents. But he was terrible with first day picks. He wanted to take Spears first and then Ware. It's a good thing he lost that battle. And if he really wanted an OLB when he took Carpenter he should have taken Manny Lawson or Mathias Kiwanuka, both of whom were generally rated higher than Carpenter.

Posted by Frank @ 9:25 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

I can't stand this 20/20 draft hind sight.
The pick didn't really get me going to begin with, but it was the pick the Cowboys made. Bobby Carpenter wasn't rated highly on just the Cowboys board... he was rated highly on every NFL team's board. As I remember it, the other LB that went to Minnesota (from Iowa St.) was rated right next to Carpenter to come here. The Cowboys were fresh off of signing Ayodele and Boiman as free agents. There was no where for a inside backer to play... they had an opening at OLB with little depth as well.

The thing is, if someone like Ellis or Ware goes down, a guy like Spencer and Carpenter is going to come in real handy. I think if you put Carpenter in there he'd probably put up some numbers. But right now he's stuck in a log jam. The Cowboys will be best to just hang on to him and ride this out. He'll play eventually, and probably play quite well too.

Posted by don @ 10:20 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

sdrick,
i've heard that story before but never once seen any credible evidence that its true.

i watched the draft that year. When they took ware at #11, ESPN showed the boy's "war room" live, right after the pick, and BP was smiling and chatting pleasantly with JJ. He certainly didnt look like he felt that they'd just taken the wrong guy at 11.

In fact, it was everyone else who felt that way. It was merriman that everyone thought we should have gotten (until this year of course), and BP constantly fielded questions for two years about merriman vs. ware. BP certainly defended the ware pick in all those questions, never once distancing himself from it and suggesting that he wanted spears first.

Posted by Danno58 @ 10:25 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

In response to Richard Scribe. Yeah, we passed on Jackson and got Jones, but the trade we made that "passed" on Jackson netted us a second first round pick the following year. Can you say, Ware and Spears?

Posted by Ray @ 11:19 PM Fri, Dec 28, 2007

Parcells did not got any love while in Texas and rightfully so. Not only is Carpenter a bust, but we should also have Stephen Jackson. Unfortunately 'the Tuna' did not do well here and could not take the heat from the fans. Now Parcells has the nerve to say the '07 Pat's would beat the '93 Cowboys. He's a hater just because the Pat's fan kiss his rear and Jimmy's 'boys used to beat the hell out of his Giants. The '07 Pat's could not beat the '93 Bills or '93 Oilers.

Posted by sdrick @ 12:48 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

don,
Check a December 21, 2007 column by Dan Pompei in the Chicago Tribune. It names "a source" as saying that Parcells wanted Spears before Ware and was overruled by Jones. That would have been his worst draft day mistake - because there's no way Ware would have been available at No. 20 - but there were several others that were evident when made. Carpenter clearly was one. Fasano was another. He is developing, but a second round pick is too much for a back-up tight end. The same goes for Burnett. He is a contributor, but a second round pick is a miss if it doesn't yield a starter.
Still, to be fair, Parcells helped stock this team with a lot of talent and deserves his share of credit for the team's sucess this year. I just wish they had locked him out of the war room until day 2 of the drafts.

Posted by Question Everything @ 12:59 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Oh, it has to be true since Pompei quoted a "source" in the Chicago Tribune. I'm not saying it's not true, but you have to have more than a Pompei article to make me go around stating information as a fact.

Posted by anthony @ 2:38 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

I think Dallas had Demeco Ryans rated high on their draft board and could have had him in the second round. Just like they had Stephen Jackson rated high. Sometimes it is best to just stick to your first instinct and draft what is on your board.

Posted by Mike @ 2:51 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Tim McFraud, you're really good at scouting players AFTER they've become successful. I wonder if you can find anyone to pay you for that. Oh yeah, DMN does... that is if they are, in fact, paying you yet.

Posted by jtt @ 8:12 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

For all of you Tuna haters out there, see the scoreboard over the last 20 years.......certainly he is not perfect, but would you rather have him or Jerry Jones (Quincy Carter, Chad Hutc. Drew Henson, etc) running your draft??

Some "SAGE" here quotes a Chicago Trib writer as "the" unimpeachable source regarding the Ware/Spears picks----HUH?????? The one thing everyone does know is that Mr Jones signed all of those QB prospects personally (his "chosen ones"), yet BP comes in and by year three had both Bledsoe and Romo on the roster....talk to us three years from now and see which organization performs better in the talent aquisition business.....and this for one Dallas beat writer.........is there any doubt now that JJ wanted BP out of the organization?? It has only been ten months since BP's resignation and he has already found another gig.......Four years from now the Dolphins will have been on our schedule once again........right now I am picking Fish over our Boys on the field in 2011 if the head of football operations remain as they stand today!!!

Jerry Jones =GREAT OWNER/Businessman MEDIOCRE GM;

Bill Parcells = HOF coach (yes, best years behind him as a coach), SUPERLATIVE TALENT EVALUATOR

Posted by MikeInUkraine @ 8:42 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

To me it's irrelevant Cromartie was chosen just behind Bobby C. I don't recall hearing any talk about him the way. The majority of people felt so thankful when Steven Jackson dropped all the way to us at #22 a couple years before only to get our hearts ripped from our chests when they traded down. The next year was almost the same when Shawn Merriman was there waiting for us to pounce. That wasn't quite as bad for me personally because Ware did stand out in the senior bowl and got my attention. Since Cromartie wasn't on anyone's radar I don't feel like he was a miss. I remember a lot of talk about Manny Lawson. So how's he doing? I personally was looking at O-lineman at the time Carpernter was chosen. So how is Winston Justice looking now? Lawson and Justice are a couple names I look at to compare.

Looking back on it now, that was a pretty lame bunch of players throughout the entire draft after the first 15 with an odd jem here and there. It was pretty easy to pick a bust or average player at best from round 2 on. If you want to pick a player we missed (along with everyone else) why not pick Marques Colston? Gee, we took Carpenter, Anthony Fasano, Jason Hatcher, Skyler Green, Pat Watkins, Montavious Stanley, Pat McQuisten & E.J. Whitley all ahead of him.

Posted by NovaNation @ 8:44 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

ireland probably won himself a job in miami for convincing jerry that carpenter could be of some value. nonetheless, i still think carpenter can be of some value and shouldn't be given up just yet. oh, maroney would've been better than cromartie but i would've taken him too...he's a monster.

Posted by MikeInUkraine @ 8:53 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Carpenter is a victim of the teams success in finding LBs that fit the 3-4 Bill Parcells wanted to go to. At the same time Greg Ellis was succeeding with the transition to OLB, all the other players drafted the year before or signed as FAs were paying off. I don't think there was a miss among them including Scott Fujita and a couple of home grown undrafted FAs whose names escape me right now but were signed to other teams since then. There's no shame in that. That's a good problem to have. Too bad we couldn't have more of that kind of luck with the chasing of CBs and OLs over the past 10 years.

Posted by Saint Jimmy @ 9:35 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

I was screaming to draft a CB in that draft and people were calling me crazy. They said it'd be stupid to waste a top draft choice when we had Newman, Henry, and Glenn. But I was going by what the Eagles did when their two probowl caliber CB's (Taylor & Vincent) were in their 30's...they drafted Lito Sheppard and Sheldon Brown and they never missed a beat. So I knew that Glenn had very little in the tank left, Henry is on the wrong side of 30, and outside of QB the CB position is the hardest to learn. It just made sense to me that we should have drafted Cromartie. He had some return skills (obvious with his 109 yard and 34 inch TD) so he could have helped there, on dime packages, been able to learn from Glenn/Newman/Henry, and would have been able to step in for Glenn or Henry without our secondary missing a beat.

Posted by bigwaynebuc @ 10:35 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Big Bill made more good than bad picks thats all a cowboy fan can ask for. Remember before Big Bill got here, how soon do we forget all the bust and we still don't know if Carp can play, to many players in front of him.

Posted by James @ 10:37 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Tim, your mother and father are also brother and sister. Another inbred moron fromt eh SOuth commenting football.

No wonder football fans hate Cowboys fans. Truly ignorant. But let us add .......

Tony Romo
MBIII
Witten
James
Newman
Ware
Crayton
Colombo
Gurode (saved his career)
Flo (never sniffed the Pro Bowl till Parcells)
Austin
Hurd

.... to name a few. And given Jones's track record jesus marie. What f**king ingrate idiots.

Posted by sdrick @ 10:39 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Question Everything,
The Pompei article was just one example. There's also an article by Clarence Hill on November 8, 2007 in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that also says that if Parcells had his way the Cowboys would have picked Spears at No. 11.

Posted by Robert @ 10:40 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Tim's line of deep thinking --"If your mother had ballz she would be your father."

If .... we had taken Randy Moss, Joey Porter, Ed Reed ..... This could go on forever from the Jerry Jones days.

And again, Carpenter was the BEST PLAYER in Seattle last year. He got screwed with another position change and scheme change.

Posted by Chris @ 10:56 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

real simple folks. Bill did Bobby's dad a favor.

Carpenter is better suited for the 4-3, and special teams.

Carpenter only looked good at tOSU because of Hawk playing next to him.

Posted by tommex @ 10:57 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

C'mon Saint,

You and Tabloid Timmy spare us the 20/20 hindsight.
Don't recall any previous laments about Cromartie,
even when it was clear Jock Reeves was going to be
pressed into a starter role this year.
Yes, Carpenter was a bad pick...looks like a bust
so far...sheesh, you'd think he'd at least be some
sort of special teams bad-a$$ even if he wasn't
starting ? But noooo.
Maybe we can pawn him off on BP & the Fins ?

But missing the immortal Cromartie ?

We needed Timmy, you and Nostradamus in the draft
room that year, heck with Ireland & BP, hahaha,
Cheerio,

Posted by David h @ 11:00 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Antonio Cromartie was getting close to being considered a bust after doing nothing last year as a rookie. Give Carpenter an opportunity and he could prove something to us as well. I am definitely looking forward to seeing what he does against the Redskins on Sunday.

Come on, we have to admit Parcells did a great job in stockpiling talent for the Cowboys. In terms of personnel I would give him a "B+" If he hadn't whiffed on Round 1-4 picks like Jacob Rogers, Skyler Green and maybe Al Johnson, his draft record would be sterling.

Posted by Cleve @ 11:09 AM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

My research indicated that Manny Lawson would have been a better pick than Carpenter and Lawson was still on the board when Carpenter was picked. Lawson would have rendered unnecessary the use of still another No. 1 pick for a good OLB that was used to obtain Spencer. But Parcels can still get Carpenter, if he really thinks he's so great, by trading for him. I think the Cowboys would seriously consider such a trade if it would get them closer to McFadden.

Posted by Darius @ 1:46 PM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

The reason Cromartie slipped was because he barely played at FSU. He was by no means polished, but considered a great athlete and many hoped he would develop. He has, and good for him.

Lawson was a college DE, like Ware. Parcells (and rightfully so) wanted a more traditional LB as we already had Ware going through that transition and Ellis was also trying to make the switch from DE to LB. So, I don't see a reason to sh** on the Carpenter pick.

Everyone forgets that we were pretty solid at all our positions during that draft. We basically drafted for depth that entire draft. At CB we had Newman, Henry, Glenn, and the young guys that are playing alright currently. At LB, we needed that extra player way more. The uncertainty of Ellis' transition, plus Burnett's injury history meant that LB was a need.

Carpenter has been buried because the players ahead of him performed well or better than expected. This kid can play. The fact that he can't get on the field just means that he does not have a "specialty" that is stronger than the specialties of Spencer (rushing the qb) or Burnett (very good cover LB in the nickel). Bobby is a jack of all trades, but Wade is using the players in specialist roles. The only 3 down players on D are Ware, Ellis, Newman, Henry, Hamlin, and Ratliff. Akin, Bradie, Roy, Spears, and Canty are all coming off the field for specialists that either cover better or rush the qb better.

Would it be nice to have Cromartie? Sure. But we can go to any draft, for any team, and find players that have ended up being better than players taken ahead of him. Playing the "we could have had this guy" game is not only fruitless, but stupid.

Tabloid strikes again. You would think your middle name is Marley, the way you like to stir it up.

Posted by ntouch4u2 @ 1:54 PM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

We should have drafted "CROMARTIE", Give me a break, when Bobby Carpenter was drafted I did not remember seeing anyone say draft Cromartie. Anyone saying that they said that at this time is clearly delusional.

I remember asking one question when "CARPENTER" was drafted, What does he give you, that Scott Fujita, Ryan Fowler, Scott Shanlee or Rocky Bowman doesn't. I like every last one of those guys, and they seem to be playing quite well to.

saint jimmy (and I will say it in lower case as upper case seems to make you cry) you are an absolute "JOKE" if you expect anyone to remotely think that you wanted Cromartie! DUDE your Delusional! LOL LOL LOL LOL

Posted by DaBoys @ 1:55 PM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

You know...Bill Parcells can shop for groceries, but he sure can't cook worth a damn!

Posted by petemac @ 8:33 PM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

I just don't think they have given carpenter a chance. they have given Bradie James 3 years to develop into what he is becoming( not great yet) In the few times I have seen carpenter play I thought he had good speed and was always around the ball. I think they are making a huge mistake by not playing him more, and a huger mistake if they decide to let him go

Posted by MikeInUkraine @ 9:49 PM Sat, Dec 29, 2007

Cromartie has done what J. Reeves has done which is develope. He's a ball hawk, not a shut down corner. The only logical choice back then was help on the offensive line.They never got it then and it showed. They have it now with Leonard and Columbo manning the right side. Parcells never drafted Gurode, he only delyed his development by drafting another center. It was Jerry's insistence that Gurode move back to center. He's on (taped) record saying all he had to do was go back and look at what he did in college.