SPORTSDAY

Posted by Rob @ 11:23 PM Sat, Feb 02, 2008

Where do you draw the line?
hey just let Marion Jones have her medals back, Patriots keeping taping teams practice and fire all fbi agents working on steriods and we can all have a happy life, better yet go to my sons 3rd grade class and explain this ridiculous article about why cheating is ok.....where do you draw the line people

Posted by pokes @ 11:39 PM Sat, Feb 02, 2008

yes

Posted by even stevev @ 11:51 PM Sat, Feb 02, 2008

Sounds good Rob. We taking away the Cowboy titles too?

Posted by quincyyyyy @ 12:20 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Timmy I thought you were a Cowboys fan? You cut out the most important part of the interview:

"Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but HE ENDED UP STOPPING because he didn't think the team got much out of it."

I doubt we cheated in '92, '93, and '95. So I can still look down my nose at the CHEATRIOTS.

Posted by Cheaterboys @ 12:23 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Nice try quincy...Switzer admitted it to. Is it a big deal or not you hypocrite??

Posted by quincyyyyy @ 12:28 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Switzer never admitted to anything lier. And Jimmy stopped soon after he started in '89, so '92 and '93 are clean. Ha!

Posted by Frank @ 12:30 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

quincyyyy,

I think Breer put Tim up to it. Why else would he make the Cowboys record look worse than it really is?

Posted by Dustin @ 1:09 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

The problem with media logic against the "hate" towards the Patriots cheating is simply flawed. Are there teams that have cheated and didn't get caught? Almost definitely. Did that cheating possibly lead to undeserved Championship titles? More than likely. Does this justify what the Patriots did? Absolutely not. The fact is they did get caught. It's out there and it's in the open. Not only that but now it seems that the league, the team, and even part of the media seem to be hiding or trying to downplay what has been done. It's there in everyone's faces and it's getting played off like it was no big deal. Everyone did it, no problem. And it's a bunch of B.S. The Patriots will forever be tainted in my mind if at least for this season because "spygate" without a doubt has shown that the Pats have/had a system in place to get an illegal advantage over other teams. And I'm sure as a Cowboys fan I'd be biased if something like this had been discovered about my team but would hope to have the intelligence and decency not to write it off as no big deal.

Posted by Dumb bloggers crack me up @ 1:22 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

It's not against the rules to steal signals, dorks. It's not even against the rules to steal signals with video cameras. It's against the rules to steal signals with video cameras from the sidelines. What part don't you morons get?

Posted by davej @ 3:15 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

To answer your question, at this point it seems like every winner in everything is cheating one way or another, so maybe we should just cancel all sports leagues and events. Let's have embroidery competitions! DO you think any of them are on the juice?

Roger Goodell really blew this by destroying the tapes before anyone had a chance to view them. He made it look like he was covering something up.

Also, you guys are forgetting one little thing - the NFL sent out letters before this past season saying DO NOT DO THIS. If you still do it, it's like a Double Dog Dare - you're just asking for trouble.

Posted by Greybeard @ 3:48 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

If in a roundabout way Mr. McMahon is saying maybe the Cowboys should be stripped of their Super Bowls of the 90's, someone should remind him that the salary cap was instituted in 1994. That was AFTER the Cowboys won their first two SBs of that era. So if he wants to excuse the pre-cap teams he would have to include those.

Oh, and nothing about the NFL was fair in the pre-cap era? Do you mean the absence of all the rules instituted to produce more offense? The fact that the talent available to the teams was less watered down? A salary cap that has crippled some teams and made it impossible to maintain continuity? Oh, parity means that EVERY team has a shot because the playing field is more level, right? Take a look at 2007. 19 out of 32 teams had records at or below .500(59.4%). In 1997, 16 out of 30)53.3%). In 1987, 14 out of 28(50%). 15 out of 28(53.6%). Yeah, parity sure has leveled the playing field with more teams at or below .500 than ever. The only difference there is, the average and poor teams change year to year although some teams never come out of the doldrums. There are still haves and have nots, the only difference is the parts can change from year to year.

Mr. McMahon must have started watching football during the salary cap era.

The dominance of the Packers of the 60's, the Steelers, Cowboys, Raiders and Vikings of the 70's, the 49ers, Giants and Redskins of the 80's and the Cowboys and 49ers of the 90's helped make the league what it is today. The primary reason the NFL has overtaken baseball as the country's most popular sport is because baseball has been tainted by cheating and strikes. Well, here the NFL is, tainted by cheating and now the threat of a strike. No one cared about the idea of cheating in baseball in the 80's and before although there have been accounts of steroids, amphetamines and gambling. The issue is the early-mid 90's on where there is documented, recorded proof. No one has slammed the Steelers of the 70's because of accounts of steroid use. It's in the distant past.

We're talking about here and now, about a team that has won their titles on late second field goals, not as the result of dominating performances. Think there isn't a difference? Wrong.

Posted by William @ 4:03 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

It is enough to know that Tom Landry never cheated like the low class Belichick. That fellow had such integrity and demanded such respect that a pair of Cowboy players with an igloo water jug once stopped abruptly in their plan on sneaking up behind the monument of a coach to douse him after a victory. I can still remember Don Merideth the announcer cowering from the booth pleading out loud for them not to do it.

Posted by JQPublic @ 5:01 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

I think some maybe missing the primary issue here with spygate. Yes the Pats may have been able to steal signals and such, but there is more sinister to this.

There is only so much exposure you get to each player on game day. But watching them practice four or five times a day would really indicate the cream of the crop. So guessing at free agency really isn't much of a guess at all for the Pats and other teams. Have the pats had a bad year in free agency in the past eight years?

Posted by St. Louis Cowboy @ 7:39 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Greybeard,

I can't believe you wrote that "book" and took a chance on the CAPTCHA code! You got some balls!

Posted by Hap @ 7:45 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

The newcomers are just trying to bail The Cheatriots out. You knew it would be T-Mac to come out with this horsescheitt. Looks like he's in cahoots with Al and Cowardshaw.
T-Mac, produce those tapes, pal. Either that, or produce a memo from the league office telling those other teams not to do it, you know, just weeks before they actually did.
You think Jimmy was looking to egg JJ in that one ?
Oh, no, remember you said it had NOTHING to do with the suvvess of The Cheats ? It had nothing to do with.... Hypocrite.

Posted by Charles @ 7:55 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Tim you left this out, "Johnson admitted it was "borderline" but he ended up stopping because he didn't think the team got much out of it."

Must you sensationalize everything? You are almost slandering ethical teams for doing nothing because the teams in 1992, 1993, and 1995 didn't do it, as Jimmy said he stopped in '89.

Posted by BahstonRattriotsSahk @ 8:05 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

*Rattriots
*Bill Belicheat
*Tom Brady
*BradyBunch
*nESPN
*NE tabloids
*MassaTwosh!ts fans

And a triple ***Robert Kraft, who's paid off the refs every game since his takeover of the *Rats.

* = cheaters, bribers, whiners and losers.
* = much more than a smudge, despicable and pathetic "Best Team Never".

And the camera pans to *Brady, yet again cowardly pouting and whimpering while reminding the refs that they've been paid off.

GO Giants!!!!! clobber the *Patriots

Posted by Yve @ 8:08 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

The Cowboys definitely cheated. Or push the rules to the very edge. It would be nice to see the Cowboys strip of 3 championship.

Posted by Bill in DC @ 8:25 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Greybeard,

Not sure why you threw the 49'ers into 'dominance' of the 90's as if they w4re co-equals of the Cowboys. The 49'ers won one title in the 90's (94) the Cowboys won 3 (92,93,95). If you're going to do that then the Giants, Redskins, Broncos (2), Rams, and Packers should all be listed as well. Also, the Redskins were NOT the team of the 80's, the 49'ers were. Washington won 2 titles in the 80's (1983,88), the 49'ers won 4 (82,85,89,90).

Interesting that not one of the football gurus on t his here blog seems to have noticed this revisionist history.

Also, the gurus seem to be missing something about 'spygate'. Jimmy Johnson and other teams routinely filmed opposing teams PREVIOUS games and tried to match up their signals. This is something ENTIRELY different than filming an opposing team DURING a game or in their practices leading up to a game. Yes, EVERYBODY looks at tapes of previous games for tendencies and signals. There isn't anything wrong about it. If that's wrong then isn't it also wrong for a linebacker to study film of an opposing left guard and noticing that, when he's going to pull left, he drops his left foot back about 6 inches and cants his foot to the left? The reason Jimmy stopped was because teams change their signal and plays from game to game (to defeat exactly what Jimmy was doing), not all of them, but enough to make it dangerous to anticipate any. So he's right, you don't get much out of it and it isn't worth it. It is, however, worth it if you can learn the opposing team's signals and plays that they will use during a game or before the game (filming the final walk through) for instance, or having a film crew on the OPPOSING TEAM'S side to film the coaches. If a team doesn't know you've done this then it can give you a decided advantage (why else do coaches cover their mouths when they send in plays during the game?).

What 'every team' does and what the Pats are claimed to have been doing are not the same.

Posted by Keith @ 8:40 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Yes. And if I were a Rams fan I'd really be ticked off. Imagine our Dallas Cowboys were 'the greatest show' a few years back, had been spied on in final walk-thru, taped signals in the regular season meeting and the other team 'somehow' managed to guess right on EVERY play the 'boys called inside the 30 yd line EXCEPT a play you added at the last moment during the game...and you end up not only losing by 3 points but also losing what could have been a mini dynasty.

This tears at the core of integrity of the league. The NFL messed up by washing it under the table and trying to cover up what turned out to be a HUGE black eye. There's no way they were going to let those tapes hit the airwaves. They are far too incriminating and the league has a rep to protect. If they were no big deal then pick one nfl media source and let he/she have a private viewing and a subsequent report on the subject.

They also didn't punish the offenders NEAR enough. It's too late to take away superbowls, but you can take away all draft picks for 2008 and 2009 and knock about 5 million off their cap for 2 years. If this were the Cowboys doing this, I can honestly say I'd be calling for Jerry Jones to sell the team yesterday. Belicheck and anyone directly involved in the cheating should be banned from the NFL for at least a year, if not for life.

Nobody is going to watch your game if they already think the outcome has been decided. Then all left with is a dog and pony show like the WWE.

Posted by Keith @ 8:47 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

And actually Switzer himself on Fox earlier this year said he asked then current personnel if they did anything to get an illegal advantage, such as improper scouting. The people said they didn't (which Jimmy backs up in this article ('couldn't get any advantage out of it so he stopped'). Barry said, well then we won't either.

So don't pull that everyone does it crap or so many people wouldn't be making such a big deal out of this.

Why would Mangini basically risk ruining his rep and his Belicheck connection by reporting this if 'everyone did it' and if it was just a minor thing?

Posted by Go_Giants @ 10:28 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Call it what you will...you should NOT get coach of the year in the same year in which you are personally fined the league max for cheating. The NFL is run by hypocrites. They through the book and more at players, but when it's their Golden Boy coach they slap him on the wrist.

Posted by S L @ 10:29 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer, to anyone's knowledge, were never warned by the NFL to stop it. Belicheat was. And he didn't stop. THat's the difference, and it's nothing but pure arrogance, which is what sticks on most of our craws the most. He not only keeps doing it after the NFL office warns him, he does it to teams that are now coached by his own staff, who are more than a little aware of what he does and how he does it. And that he's been warned. And he still has the gall to act all confused that it's against the rules when he's caught. AFTER HE WAS WARNED.

Posted by BamBam @ 10:53 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

It sounds like Arlen Spector is an Eagles fan. This could get ugly.

Posted by It is a Hoax @ 11:00 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

You guys are forgetting something here. After everyone of their Superbowl losses, the losing team said 'they played like they new what was coming at them'. Every team has plays that they put in at the last minute for the element of surprise and have not shown anything like it during the regular season. I even remember some of the Eagles saying that they put in new offensive and defensive plays and they played them correctly everytime.

Not to mention that it has been documented by several media outlets that when they speak to the opposing teams coach, they change alot of the ways that they send in calls or prepare for the game.

Last thing is the most important of all. Goddell ran a good smoke screen with his punishment of the Patriots. Fine the team 250K, the coack 500K, and they loose their first round draft pick. 250k is nothing to Kraft. That is like taking away 10 bucks from me or you. 500k is alot of a coach, but there is no rules saying that he could not recieve a 'incentive bonus' for 500k, effectivley covering the cost which I promise you happened. And then the draft pick. What do they care about loosing the 32 pick in the draft when they were going to have a top 10 pick anyway? I bet that if they didn't have that pick, he wouldn't have docked them. A real punishment should have been losing all 1st day draft picks and not being allowed to trade up in to the first day or have them forfeit the game to the Jets. Why didn't anything like that happen? Because Goddell and Kraft go way back and are good friends.... and if I remember correctly, Kraft was a big proponet for Goddell to take over as commish. Wouldn't you destoy incriminating evidence for your friends if you could?

Posted by Vox Veritas @ 11:15 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

A few points.

1 - Arlen Specter IS an Eagles fan. I would not expect things to get ugly, though. Goodell works for the owners, and priority #1 for the owners is to keep their cash cow league from taking a credibility hit. Specter will get absolutely no material cooperation from NFL management.

2 - Stealing signals isn't cheating in and of itself. It's gamesmanship. There are rules that cover videotaping signals. Teams are allowed to videotape anything they want from video booths in the stands. Everybody knows where the booths are, and any coach that doesn't attempt to hide his signals from possible surveillance from these known areas deserves to have his signals stolen. What the Pats did is outright cheating. Cameras on the sidelines are mobile, and no coach should be expected to hide his signals from sideline cameras... you just can't cover all possible angles.

3 - Jimmy Johnson didn't say that the Cowboys did what the Patriots have done. Stop trying to compare them, DMN dummies.

Posted by Macarthur @ 11:28 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Vox is right. Many teams videotape, but the Pats took it to a whole nother level. They are cheaters and they still did it after they had been warned to stop!

Everyone needs to stop making this about "other" teams. This is about the Pats and their arrogance.

Posted by Scott @ 11:29 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

I have yet the NFL levy any punishment against any other team for this type of infraction. Until that happens, all the words said by all those who defend the Patriots or accuse other teams mean nothing.

Posted by Keith @ 11:41 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

And actually Switzer himself on Fox earlier this season said he asked then current personnel if they did anything to get an illegal advantage, such as improper scouting, etc. The people said they didn't (which Jimmy backs up in this article ('couldn't get any advantage out of it so he stopped'). Barry said, well then we won't either...for what that's worth.

So don't pull that everyone does it stuff or so many people wouldn't be making such a big deal out of this. Why would Mangini basically risk ruining his career and his Belicheck connections by reporting this if 'everyone did it' and if it was just a minor thing?

Posted by PaulC @ 11:51 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

It's MORE THAN SPYGATE now. The Patriots cheated at the Super Bowl against the Rams. Their cameraman remained after team photos and recorded the Rams' red zone plays. This is clear cheating and must be ADDED TO the Spygate issues. The league is fixed. It is covering up. It took the evidence and DESTROYED it. Why? And it dismissed the Super Bowl cheating, according to press reports, because THE PATRIOTS told them there was nothing to it!!!! The commissioner should join Michael Vick and go to jail. Consumer FRAUD!

Posted by James @ 11:54 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Yes, they should be humiliated and vilified across the world!! Especially, the Patriots. BTW, where's the resident Cheater-lover? Did I finally run his azz out of town?

Posted by Jay @ 11:56 AM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

We cannot turn back time and we cannot change what is already in motion.

But we can question whether or not the league handled this the best way. And we should be allowed to expect that Goodell answers in detail every question that is thrown his way. He needs to desperately defend what he did and explain in detail what was in the notes and tapes that were collected.

New England should keep their Super Bowls, even today’s if they win. But going forward, a standard needs to be set that this will not be tolerated and true penalties assessed up to and including suspension and expulsion. Goodell said coaches are to be held in a higher regard because they are the authority figure of the team and acted so when suspending Wade Wilson. He clearly failed in his responsibilities when it came to Bill Belichick. The double standard needs to end.

Just as in baseball, you cannot change the records, take away homeruns, or put conditions on the accomplishments.

You learn from your mistakes like the one Goodell made with this situation and you make sure that the game is above reproach.

Posted by Sun Burns @ 12:06 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

The streaking is only hours away for Timmy and Jimmy Burns!!1!!!!!!!!

Posted by Not So Crazy Ray @ 12:10 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Hey Tabloid Timmy, profootballtalk.com is reporting that the Cowboys are looking at Gregg Williams for defensive coordinator. How about looking into that instead of the inevitable report you'll give us about the Super Bowl party attended by Romo and Jessica?

Posted by gfunk @ 12:58 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Jay, you can take stuff away if you want. Ask Marion Jones. They stripped her of medals and records going back to September of 2000. They've even told her to repay $700,000 in award money. What would be the big difference?

Posted by letsgoto @ 1:00 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Jason Witten named Howie Long's tough guy of the year, J-witt keeps gettin' the awards, maybe next year he will add a ring!

Posted by Mik @ 1:32 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Everybody continues to not get or completely ignore For years, yes EVERYONE was filming stuff. When EVERYONE is filming stuff it's an even playing field. Now, the league EXPRESSLY banned this action and teams stopped doing it. Before THIS season the league put a firm WARNING our to teams NOT to do this. They did this because teams were complaining that the PATRIOTS were still doing this. Now, when ONE team is doing this and the others aren't that creates an UNEVEN playing field.

Despite this WARNING prior to this season, the PATRIOTS did AGAIN ANYWAY.

This isn't something that just came out of nowhere. Have you seen any other team even mentioned as possibly doing this? No. Why? Because they aren't doing it. The Pats got BUSTED doing something THEY were warned not to do not 90 days prior. And nobody can say they haven't been doing it all along. They just NOW started doing this only AFTER the warning? And they didn't do it when nobody was really watching LOLOLOLOL PALEEZ!

Their dynasty is a sham.

This is what you call PREMEDITATEDLY BREAKING THE RULES TO GAIN AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE.

The things Jimmy is talking about back in the day could be characterized by some as UNETHICAL but not ILLEGAL. Steeling signs in baseball may be UNETHICAL but it isn't ILLEGAL.

What the PATS did was ILLEGAL.

So what do you get for cheating? A laughable fine, a 4th Super Bowl victory, the 4th pick in the draft and encouragement by the league and media to look the other way. After all, they have a product to protect! Blowing them away for this would have protected the product. Not condoning it.

Posted by PaulC @ 1:53 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Should the Patriots win, instead of a postgame trip to the White House to meet with the president, they should all be "invited" to a Senate hearing to meet with Specter and the other senators who have oversight over corporations conducting fraudulent "games" and misrepresenting their product to the public.

Posted by Zed @ 2:13 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Tim Burns, I mean "The Gimp", come home. We miss U. Your trunk is clean and we have a brand new red ball for your mask. Maynard just bought a brand new box of Slim Jims along with a case of Mountain Dew. The shop is so lonely w/out you. As long as your in Arizona stop by the Valley. We can play again.

Zed&Maynard
The Valley CA

Posted by Zed @ 2:14 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Tim Burns, I mean "The Gimp", come home. We miss U. Your trunk is clean and we have a brand new red ball for your mask. Maynard just bought a brand new box of Slim Jims along with a case of Mountain Dew. The shop is so lonely w/out you. As long as your in Arizona stop by the Valley. We can play again.

Zed&Maynard
The Valley CA

Posted by Southie @ 2:15 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Here is three cheers to Arlen Spector and Congress for wanting to investigate the NFL which they have every right to do so. Many teams play in publicly funded stadiums, air games on federally controlled airwaves, have multi-billion dollar television and marketing deals, and charge customers exorbitant rates for tickets, merchandise and food. Events like the Super Bowl are routinely called an "Unofficial National Holiday." Congress has every right, and an obligation to ensure that the game is played honestly and fairly. Health care, war, and taxes are also important for Congress to act on, but multi-billion dollar industries that are part of the national culture are certainly also worthy of Congressional attention.

Posted by Jim Burns @ 4:10 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Just to let you guys know Tim and I are very nervous. We practiced all night and we are excited. We have 100 jars of peanut butter and honey for the streaking tonight. There is lots of security so we are thinking of hiding in Strahans mouth and then jumping out of the gap between his teeth. Wish us luck and see you all soon.

Jim Burns
Arizona

Posted by Jay @ 5:52 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

gfunk, did it change the fact that it actually happened?

Nope, millions saw it. It happened. Didn't we all learn from teh OJ trial that you can't "un-ring" the bell?

Dude, it doesn't change history. Just the way it is reported.

Posted by gfunk @ 8:44 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

"Nope, millions saw it. It happened. Didn't we all learn from teh OJ trial that you can't "un-ring" the bell?"

Yeah. That's because of double jeopardy protection provided to the accused by our Constitution. Can you come up with another crappy comparison that I can blow completely out of the water? Stripping accomplishments and awards from sports figures has a precedence. It's happened in football from high school right up to college. Why not the pros?

Posted by Jay @ 9:50 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Gfunk...one reason and one reason only...it just ain't gonna happen my friend. That's all. Nothing more simple, nothing more complicated.

And by the way a swing and a miss on my whole point. You just don't get it.

Posted by Go_Giants @ 9:58 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

I guess it's safe to say CHEATERS NEVER WIN LOL!

Posted by Jay @ 10:33 PM Sun, Feb 03, 2008

Go_Giants...That's one for the ages.

I love you guys tonight. But tomorrow it's back to hating everything NFC East that aint Cowboys.

Congrats for a job well done. Cheers!